Online Learning in the Second Half

By: John Nash & Jason Johnston
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  • Summary

  • In this podcast, John Nash and Jason Johnston take public their two-year long conversation about online education and their aspirations for its future. They acknowledge that while some online learning has been great, there is still a lot of room for improvement. While technology and innovation will be a topic of discussion, the conversation will focus on how to get online learning to the next stage, the second half of life.
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Episodes
  • EP 32 - Pedagogy of Kindness: Fostering it Online with Cate Denial

    EP 32 - Pedagogy of Kindness: Fostering it Online with Cate Denial
    Nov 12 2024
    In this episode, John and Jason talk with Cate Denial, author of “Pedagogy of Kindness” about kindness to self and students in the online classroom. See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com Join Our LinkedIn Group - *Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too)* Guest Bio: Cate Denial is the Bright Distinguished Professor of American History and Director of the Bright Institute at Knox College in Galesburg, Illinois. Her new book, A Pedagogy of Kindness, is now available from the University of Oklahoma Press. Her historical research has examined the early nineteenth-century experience of pregnancy, childbirth and child-rearing in Upper Midwestern Ojibwe and missionary cultures, research that grew from Cate’s previous book, Making Marriage: Husbands, Wives, and the American State in Dakota and Ojibwe Country (2013). From July 2022 to December 2023, Cate was the PI on a $150,000 Mellon-funded grant bringing together thirty-six participants from across higher education in the United States to explore “Pedagogies, Communities, and Practices of Care in the Academy After COVID-19.” Cate consults on teaching in higher education with individuals, departments, and institutions in the US, UK, Ireland, Canada, and Australia. Connecting with Cate: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-denial-8869a115b/https://bsky.app/profile/cjdenial.bsky.socialhttps://catherinedenial.org/ Links and Resources: Critical Digital Pedagogy: A Collection (free access)A Pedagogy of Kindness (book)Michelle Miller’s post on Same Side PedagogyRethinking Rigor (Kevin Gannon)Annotate Your Syllabus (Remi Kalir)Digital Pedagogy Lab 2025 Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License. Transcript We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections! False Start [00:00:00] Jason: good Well, thank you. Yeah, that was a great conversation [00:00:02] Cate Denial: Yeah. Let me know, you know, if you need anything from me and otherwise I'll look forward to listening in when you get it all done. [00:00:10] Jason: Okay, our our timeline is usually somewhere between two weeks and six months [00:00:18] Cate Denial: Okay. Start [00:00:19] John Nash: I'm John nash here with Jason Johnston. [00:00:22] Jason: Hey, John. Hey, everyone. And this is Online Learning, the second half, the Online Learning Podcast. [00:00:28] John Nash: Yeah, we're doing this podcast to let you in on a conversation we've been having for the last two years about online education. Look, online learning has had its chance to be great and some of it is, but. A lot of it still isn't. So how are we going to get to the next stage? [00:00:43] Jason: That's a great question. How about we do a podcast, John, and talk about it? [00:00:48] John Nash: I think that's a perfect idea. What do you want to talk about today? [00:00:51] Jason: Well, today we have a special guest with us. With us is Catherine Denial. Cate is the Bright Distinguished Professor of American History and Director of the Bright Institute at Knox College in Galesburg, Illinois. Welcome, Cate. [00:01:07] Cate Denial: Thanks for having me. [00:01:09] Jason: Can we call you Cate? [00:01:10] Cate Denial: Of course. [00:01:12] Jason: Sometimes I take that liberty when people have that on their little thing in the video screen. I say, well, if it's there, then I guess we can call them that. [00:01:20] Cate Denial: Yeah, absolutely. [00:01:22] Jason: Yeah. Well, good. Well, it's so great to have you here. One of the reasons why we reached out to you is because of your book, which we'll get to. But even before that , in the spring of this last year, so I've got a digital critical pedagogy book club that we started in the spring. So. There's a great anthology that you're part of that talks about the pedagogy of kindness as part of that anthology the Critical digital pedagogy anthology. We'll put the link in our notes. I got to know you're writing there and then of course connected through LinkedIn and Always great to see your posts. I feel like they are kind of North Star-ish posts and I and I like following people who who helped to kind of bring me You bring me back and keep me pointed in the right direction with all of this because you can get really, really in the weeds and also caught up with all the new technologies and everything like that and what we're doing. So anyways, that was kind of my background of connecting with you. And so thank you so much for coming on to the, into the show. I just really look forward to having this conversation and have been looking forward to it ever since we set it up. We're going to get into your first chapter here in a second, but I would like to talk to you a little bit. We would like to talk to you a little ...
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    53 mins
  • EP 31 - Notebook LM's "Do It For Me" Podcast Button: A Threat to Real Educator Voices?

    EP 31 - Notebook LM's "Do It For Me" Podcast Button: A Threat to Real Educator Voices?
    Oct 28 2024
    In this episode, John and Jason react to the new button in Google’s Notebook LM that allows users to make an instant podcast. Will it be a threat to educators' voices and hard-working podcasters everywhere? See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com Join Our LinkedIn Group - *Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too)* Links and Resources: NotebookLMJason’s article “Better Definitions of Distance Education” The AI Deep Dive Podcast based on the article. Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License. Transcript We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections! [00:00:00] Jason: That's onlinelearningpodcast.com. [00:00:03] John: Perfect. And that was a real human doing that. [00:00:06] Jason: That was a real human, even though I sounded a little more. I leaned into the mic to make it sound a little more podcasty. [00:00:12] John: Good. Well, we'll have to work on our upbeat banter between [00:00:16] Jason: guess so. [00:00:16] John: too. [00:00:17] John Nash: I'm John Nash here with Jason Johnston. [00:00:20] Jason Johnston: Hey, John. Hey, everyone. And this is Online Learning in the Second Half, the Online Learning Podcast. [00:00:25] John Nash: Yeah, we're doing this podcast to let you in on a conversation we've been having for the last couple of years about online education. Look, online learning's had its chance to be great, and some of it is, but a lot of it still isn't. How are we going to get there, Jason? [00:00:40] Jason Johnston: That is a great question. How about we do a podcast and talk about it? [00:00:45] John Nash: That's a great idea. What do you want to talk about today? [00:00:48] Jason: Nice to see you. How's Sweden? [00:00:50] John: Sweden is good. It's a little rainy here, but now the sun is coming out. It looks like we'll have a nice weekend here. So, it's [00:00:57] Jason: Yeah. Good. [00:00:59] John: So, Jason, what do you think about Google's notebook the LM and what it's doing in particular with these that we'll make from content? Yeah. [00:01:12] Jason: was wild, we've been at this at least a couple of years talking about, at least between you and I, and then like a year and a half here in the podcast, talking about AI and some of its effects on education primarily, but also just on a lot of the creative work that you and I do in different ways. Right. And I joked with somebody that, was fine when AI came for the graphic designers because, I'm not a graphic designer and, when it came for the writers and because I've never been that enthralled with the five paragraph essay anyways, [00:01:45] John: yeah. [00:01:45] Jason: the, the podcasting [00:01:47] John: it's fine that AI put the writers and the graphic designers out of business, but this part about podcasters, that's just too far, That's right. Exactly. [00:01:55] Jason: Notebook LM has been at it for about a year. I believe is the first time that I used it. And it had some nice features of pulling in different content and so on, but they just popped out this podcasting feature and I was blown away by how natural it sounded and then how like up and positive and excited the podcast hosts were about everything that it talked about. John maybe we can listen to a couple of clips that we made. Here's one that I made actually out of a 2020 article that I had published around creating new definitions of distance education. And so, yeah, anyways, let's listen to a little bit and, and see what you think. [00:02:44] John: Yeah, let's do that, because I think that'll show the banter and the give and take. [00:02:48] Notebook 2: Totally. Technically, both are distance learning, but they're totally different experiences. Night and day. And I think that's why you started seeing researchers like Simonson and Seeprasad trying to add more to the definition. [00:03:01] Notebook 1: They were really emphasizing things like two way communication, individualized instruction, that kind of thing. [00:03:06] Notebook 2: They knew those old definitions were too simple for this new world of online learning. It wasn't just, are the teacher and student in the same room anymore. [00:03:14] Notebook 1: But even with those additions, finding one definition everyone agrees on. Still tough. [00:03:20] Notebook 2: Moving target for sure. And it matters. It's not just a theoretical debate. [00:03:24] Notebook 1: Right. This whole definition dilemma has real consequences. [00:03:28] Notebook 2: Big time. [00:03:29] Notebook 1: Like that whole thing with Western Governors University WGU. [00:03:32] Notebook 2: Oh yeah, the WGU case is a perfect example of why this matters. So you've got this university, huge online enrollment, all about competency based learning, really ...
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    22 mins
  • EP 30 - Dr. Omid Fotuhi and the Sense of Belonging in Online Learning

    EP 30 - Dr. Omid Fotuhi and the Sense of Belonging in Online Learning
    Sep 9 2024
    In this episode, John and Jason talk with Dr. Omid Fotuhi, a research associate at the University of Pittsburgh and the Director of Learning Innovation at WGU Labs, about the notion of belonging in the evolving landscape of online learning. They discuss the WGU model and how it breaks traditional barriers through competency-based, self-paced education, the critical role of fostering a sense of belonging for student success, the need for institutions to move beyond temporary interventions to address deeper structural issues, and the future of education where learning becomes more independent. See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com Join Our LinkedIn Group - Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too) Links and Resources: Inscribe - Community-based educational software application"Where and with whom does a brief social-belonging intervention promote progress in college?” Article https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade4420 Dr. Omid Fotuhi Contact Information LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omidfotuhi/ Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License. Transcript We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections! [00:00:00] Omid Fotuhi: The notion and the assumption that learning happens best, as measured by seat time, the number of hours you spend. [00:00:07] Omid Fotuhi: Ha. [00:00:08] John Nash: So [00:00:09] Jason Johnston: rookie mistake, John. Come on. We haven't quite been at this a year yet, Omid. so… [00:00:15] John Nash: My phone is off, but my Macintosh rang [00:00:18] Omid Fotuhi: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. [00:00:21] John Nash: I'm John Nash here with Jason Johnston. [00:00:25] Jason Johnston: Hey, John. Hey everyone. And this is online learning in the second half, the online learning podcast. [00:00:31] John Nash: Yeah, we're doing this podcast to let you in on a conversation we've been having for the last two years about online education. Look, online learning has had its chance to be great and some of it is, but still, a lot of it really isn't. And so Jason, how are we going to get to the next stage? [00:00:47] Jason Johnston: That's a great question, John. How about we do a podcast and talk about it? [00:00:51] John Nash: I think that's a great idea. What do you want to talk about today? [00:00:55] Jason Johnston: Today we are joined by Dr. Omid Fatouhi. Omid, welcome to the podcast. [00:01:01] Omid Fotuhi: Thank you. It's great to be here. [00:01:03] Jason Johnston: Can we call you Omid? [00:01:05] Omid Fotuhi: That sounds great. [00:01:06] Jason Johnston: Okay. Omid is a research associate at the University of Pittsburgh and director of learning innovation at WGU labs. So great to have you here to talk with us today. [00:01:17] Omid Fotuhi: I look forward to it. [00:01:19] Jason Johnston: You and I, we met over dinner through the company Inscribe at a conference. And one of the things that, of course, immediately, just made me realize that you were just a great guy is our common love of Canada We talked about living in Canada and talked a little bit about longing to live in Canada again. And so I appreciated that. And then we connected, of course, over the topic of online and the panel that this company Inscribe, which I can put a link in, great people, cool product. Not paid by them. But I'll put a link to our show notes. But they connected us over this idea of belonging, student belonging online, which is a huge topic. And we'll get into that because you've done some research. in this area. But first, we wanted to get to know you a little bit and just to chat about that. Tell us a little bit about your current roles and where you are living right now. [00:02:17] Omid Fotuhi: Yeah, I think the best way to describe my current role is as a fish trying to climb a tree. If you've heard the expression that you shouldn't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, nonetheless, that's what I am. It's akin to what's also known as the Peter Principle, which is to say that if you're trying skilled and competent, you'll eventually be promoted into incompetence, often into management. And that's not too far from the truth with where I am, except that I've been able to create a pretty unique situation for myself. So I am a trained social psychologist by training. That's where a lot of my thinking and a lot of the way that I look at things comes from. And currently, I'm working for WG Labs which is a R& D arm of Western Governors University, which does focus on how it is that we can create the technological tools and the research base to understand how to optimize learning for students, both in traditional but also online ...
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    58 mins

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