Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent delve into the debate over COVID-19’s origins, discussing the scientific evidence behind both the lab leak and natural transmission theories. They critique the rhetoric used by some public health figures and organizations like Biosafety Now, highlighting the contradictions in how lab safety and herd immunity have been framed during the pandemic. The episode concludes by emphasizing the need for a balanced approach to both lab safety and zoonotic disease prevention in future pandemic preparedness.

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