In episode 739, Rob Walling interviews Andy Kim, co-founder of Trotto, about his unique journey into SaaS. Andy shares how “go links” work, and why they are so valuable for internal, enterprise use despite their relative obscurity. They also explore the marketing hurdles and customer adoption challenges in a business like Trotto.

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.

• 3:13 – Go links, URL shorteners for enterprise
• 6:14 – History of the problem and core users
• 9:44 – Customer education and growth opportunities
• 15:37 – Finding the repeatable marketing funnel
• 21:07 – Buying into a co-founder role at Trotto
• 24:42 – What’s the hardest part of running Trotto?

• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• MicroConf Masterminds - Applications close on December 4th, 2024
• Trot.to
• Trotto go links (@TrottoHQ) | X
• TinySeed
• How did go links start and evolve at Google?
• Quiet Light

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 738, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure as he answers listener questions. He explores how to target larger, enterprise deals after achieving product-market fit, and why word of mouth marketing can be great, yet is tricky to control. Rob also answers a later-stage question and cautions against trying to educate the market as a bootstrapper.

• 1:58 – Expanding to enterprise deals after product-market fit
• 6:39 – Word of mouth marketing is tricky for B2B SaaS
• 14:36 – Educating the market as a bootstrapper
• 20:07 – Selling integrations through incubators and accelerators
• 24:38 – Developing a profit sharing model

• Register for MicroConf Remote before Nov. 7th for Early Bird pricing & extras
• Ask a Question at Startups For the Rest of Us
• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Adjacency Matrix: How to expand after PMF by Jason Cohen
• F5Bot
• Syften
• Podscan
• Veed
• Devising a profit sharing program for micro-multinationals by Peldi Guilizzoni

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 737, Rob Walling is joined by Derrick Reimer to recap the experience from MicroConf Europe 2024 in Dubrovnik. They discuss the differences between MicroConf US and MicroConf Europe, some small programming tweaks over the years, and they revisit the highlights from the talks at this event.

If you missed the event and had some MicroConf FOMO, get your tickets now for our New Orleans event!

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.

• 2:47 – MicroConf Europe vs. MicroConf US
• 6:44 – Adding “excursions” to the programming
• 11:29 – From Maker to Founder to Owner to Entrepreneur with Peldi Guilizzoni
• 18:55 – Thinking big and small: Data-driven growth strategies to grow your business with Andrew Davies
• 20:45 – Contributing factors to the success of this event in particular
• 23:47 – 10 Lessons Learned in 10 Years of Starting, Growing, and Selling WebinarNinja with Omar Zenhom
• 26:40 – Bootstrapping Our Freemium Form Builder: From Zero to $1.5M ARR with Marie Martens
• 30:37 – 3 mistakes I won’t repeat after growing my business to +35M and selling it with Tim Vandecasteele
• 33:50 – Breaking Through the 7 SaaS Growth Plateaus with Rob Walling

• Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans
• Signup for the MicroConf newsletter
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X
• SavvyCal
• Peldi from Balsamiq (@peldi) | X
• The SaaS Playbook
• Omar Zenhom (@TheOmarZenhom) | X
• Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please

In episode 736, join Rob Walling as he answers some later-stage listener questions in another solo adventure. He discusses common pitfalls in delegation, transitioning from one-time transactions to SaaS models, and when it makes sense to target multiple ICPs. Rob also warns about the limited impact that social media marketing can have on growing your SaaS tool.

Are you drowning in challenging tech decisions? You should check out today’s sponsor, Techstack.

Unlike typical staffing agencies, these folks are startup specialists with over a decade of experience in startup software development.

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One of Techstack’s clients was recently featured on Inc. Magazine's Fast Growth Companies list, and they attributed part of their 375% growth to their partnership.

Here's an exclusive offer for "Startups For the Rest of Us" listeners: Get a 10% discount on your first month of development with Techstack. And if you're one of the first 10 listeners to get in touch, you'll also receive a free, in-depth tech assessment and expert consultation – a $3,000 value – in your choice of critical areas like architecture, infrastructure, development process or project management. This could be the game-changer your startup needs.

Don't let tech challenges slow you down. Check out https://www.tech-stack.com/startups to discover how Techstack can turbocharge your growth.

• 2:17 – What to delegate on the path to $10k MRR
• 6:43 – Be wary of social media marketing masquerading as productivity
• 10:31 – DIY vs. hiring a growth agency for B2B SaaS marketing
• 15:22 – Not every business should be a subscription business
• 22:00 – Defining, targeting, and selling to different ICPs

• Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans
• The SaaS Launchpad
• TinySeed
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Founding Sales by Peter Kazanjy
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 735, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he categorizes the different levels of SaaS platform risk. He introduces a framework with three key factors: Replacement, Customer Concentration, and Lead Flow. Rob then defines eight levels of risk according to these factors and other vulnerabilities such as relying on open source – a hot topic with recent news about WordPress, WP Engine, and Automattic.

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.

• 2:32 – Are replacements available for this platform?
• 4:56 – How concentrated are your customers on this platform?
• 5:31 – What is your lead or customer flow?
• 8:54 – Level 1: almost no platform risk
• 10:04 – Level 2: reliant on a commoditized platform
• 11:49 – Level 3: using large cloud providers like AWS
• 15:33 – Level 4: deeply tied to open source software like WordPress
• 18:11 – Level 5: high switching costs, but replacements exist like in no-code
• 20:00 – Level 6: 100% lead flow risk
• 21:44 – Level 7: a friendly app ecosystem
• 23:24 – Level 8: aggressive platforms, few replacements, customer concentration

• Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans
• TinySeed
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• Ask a Question on SFTROU
• How to find and validate business ideas from 75+ SaaS Marketplaces

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 734, Rob Walling interviews Ian Landsman, founder of HelpSpot, about his 20-year bootstrapper journey. They discuss Ian's transition from on-prem software to SaaS, the challenges and benefits of each, and the early days of building the business. They wrap up by discussing the potential impact of AI on the customer service industry.

• 1:11 – Ian, the OG bootstrapper
• 2:22 – Benefits of on-prem software in 2024
• 5:46 – Slow, steady, profitable growth through the years
• 9:20 – Embracing a risky start
• 14:11 – Getting early awareness
• 18:52 – Transitioning to SaaS
• 26:37 – Laravel raises $57M
• 28:59 – AI impact on customer service

• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Ian Landsman (@ianlandsman) | X
• HelpSpot (@helpspot) | X
• HelpSpot
• Podscan
• Accel invests $57M into Laravel Products & Open-Source Framework
• Mostly Technical

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 733, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he covers several topics. In this episode he differentiates between good and bad distractions, weaknesses versus blind spots, and shares personal experiences of struggle. He concludes with actionable advice – uncover the blind spots, then launch, iterate, and take feedback.

• 2:09 – Not all distractions are bad
• 5:42 – The worst distractions masquerade as productivity
• 9:48 – Weaknesses versus blind spots
• 16:41 – Everybody struggles
• 24:40 – Launch, iterate, and take feedback

• The SaaS Launchpad
• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf Connect
• The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz
• Why Startup Founders Should Stop Reading Business Books by Rob Walling
• Traction by Gabriel Weinberg, Justin Mares
• Episode 725 | SEO in the Age of AI, Freemium, When Brand Becomes Important, and More Advanced Listener Questions (with Ruben Gamez)
• Launch. A Startup Documentary.

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 732, Rob Walling interviews Jeff, a mostly anonymous and retired founder, about his mostly bootstrapped business and subsequent exits. Jeff shares how he started the company in 2003 and how he persevered in the early, lonely years to achieve traction in the business. They also discuss finding fulfillment after a huge, life-changing exit.

• 2:17 – Jeff, the retired SaaS founder you haven’t heard of
• 3:32 – Refreshing the bank balance after multiple exits
• 5:26 – ARR multiples across several exits
• 8:11 – “Accidentally” SaaS, growing the business in the early days
• 11:35 – Getting through the toughest moments in the journey
• 16:31 – Why did the business work?
• 20:14 – “Short term generous, long term greedy”
• 24:32 – Staying busy after an exit
• 32:09 – Giving back to founders

• Purchase The SaaS Launchpad before September 30th to get access to a live Q&A with Rob
• TinySeed
• Retired Founder (@RetiredFounder) | X
• Contact Retired Founder
• Beyond The Finish Line

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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